Episode 001: My Kid Has a Meltdown Every Time I Say No
Hearing "no" getting you down? Not regulated enough to deal? Megan and Jen tackle the tough problem of helping your kid hear 'no' and say, "that's okay. I'm okay. I'll be okay." And hopefully these tips help you feel the same way!
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Transcript:
Megan Connell (00:01)
Hi, this is Megan Connell from The Parent Portal. You're listening to episode one. My kid has a meltdown every time I say no. The Parent Portal is a podcast in a space for light conversations about the heavy things that show up in parenting. Each episode, we talk through real questions and common behavior challenges, and we offer practical evidence-based strategies parents can try at home.
This is a educational, not medical or therapeutic advice, and it's meant to support, not replace, professional care.
We hope you enjoy the show.
Jen (00:44)
Hi Megan, nice to see you again.
Megan Connell (00:45)
Hi, it's nice to see you. This is Megan,
Connell and Jen Poss from The Parent Portal, This is episode one, blast off.
My kid has a meltdown every time I say no. So this podcast is a space for light conversations about the heavy things that show up in parenting. We'll be talking about parenting kids with autism and neurodiverse kids and that's kind of where our expertise lies. But I hope that this is helpful for any parent, right, Jen?
Jen (01:23)
⁓ absolutely, I think it would be helpful for any parent.
Megan Connell (01:27)
So each episode we talk through real questions and common behavior problems, and we offer practical evidence-based strategies parents can try at home. Disclaimer. ⁓ This is an educational and not a medical or therapeutic advice. Why are you trying not to laugh? And meant to support not replace professional care.
Jen (01:55)
The dog started barking, of course.
Megan Connell (01:59)
yeah, you're gonna have to find a new spot to podcast. Here at the Parrot Portal, we are guided by this philosophy, let him step to the music which he hears, however measured or far away. today's topic is how to help your kid deal with hearing no. What do think, Jen?
Jen (02:02)
Well...
I think this is an excellent topic because whether your child is typically developing or neurodivergent, no, when you say no or stop, which you want to do to keep your kids safe or stop them from putting a handful of pennies in their mouth or run across the street. But if you say no, it's triggering. And then you're dealing with a
Tantrum or a meltdown and where do you go from there?
Megan Connell (02:51)
Yeah, I was even thinking of this saying no is like, ⁓ can I have another cookie? No. Can I go to my friend's house? No. You know, even not even in life threatening situations, but no is just part of life because we can't always have what we want in the moment, right? And we have to tell kids no.
Jen (03:11)
Right. Yeah.
Megan Connell (03:14)
even just like every day listening to your parents give you, you know, ⁓ yes, you can do this thing or no, we can't do this thing. we have to do that all the time but how do we deal with that when that little thing that we think could be, you know, like I just said, he couldn't.
go to his friend's house and then we spent the last hour dealing with a meltdown, right?
Jen (03:44)
Right, yes.
Megan Connell (03:44)
typically we would think of it as a tangible function, but that is the most simplified, boiled down version of what is happening when a kid won't tolerate no. And there's ways that we can fix it and help kids learn to tolerate it, right?
Jen (04:05)
Yeah, mean, yeah, being denied access is something everybody wants to say. You know, no, I can have that if I want.
Megan Connell (04:14)
Right. And I think a big part of it too is like, okay, well you get told no, I think most of the time and you don't have a tantrum because you're like have coping skills and emotional regulation that help you go. Oh yeah, that's fine. I'll be fine. I got told no, we might be disappointed. We might be, you know, like sad that the, don't get the thing. The answer is no.
but we have the coping mechanisms and the emotional regulation to say, I'll be okay, even though I wanted that thing, I can't have it, right? So it's a skill, It's a developmental skill, And understanding, I like how you said understand it better too, because it is like a perspective taking thing too, understanding why something is a no,
Jen (04:52)
yeah, as you mature, of course, you understand it better. Yes,
⁓ yeah, totally.
Megan Connell (05:11)
like, you
A lot of times I think we'll tell kids no and not and assume that the no is enough. and sometimes the no is not enough. But a no and why is better, right? Because we it's almost like we assume the kid understands why. But even for the simplest things.
perspective taking might be really difficult and the kid might not be taking your perspective about why it's no, it could be like midnight and pitch dark out and like I wanna go play outside. you just say no and you know, maybe it's like, okay, I get that because I understand what the reason is. But if I can't, if I have more difficulty,
taking your perspective about why I can't do it or understanding boundaries or understanding why ⁓ it's a no, then that could make me ⁓ less capable of tolerating a no That could make me feel less regulated when I hear no.
Jen (06:28)
Well, when I was growing up, it was because I said so. And you just better accept that.
Megan Connell (06:31)
⁓
That's right.
We're so advanced, emotionally advanced now. And that's why you are an empty shell of a woman.
Jen (06:40)
We have grown as a people.
No, but it's really hard because even when, so sad, no, when my kids were little, they would want something in the store. Your automatic parenting reflexes go, no, let's keep going. Or, you know, you just give this quick, or you watch your kid, whatever, stick a penny in his mouth, your reflexes to yell, no, stop, you know.
Megan Connell (06:51)
That's too bad. So sad, too bad. That's what they say.
Right.
Jen (07:23)
Because it's a reaction.
Megan Connell (07:26)
Yeah, I think like the safety thing too. I feel like the safety responding feels totally different to me than this. I don't know.
Jen (07:34)
guess, yeah, it is different,
but you still want to stop your kid from a penny.
Megan Connell (07:39)
It's to be able to
Right, right, right, right, right, right. build the skill of being told no and regulate.
Jen (07:44)
or whatever.
Okay,
Megan Connell (07:49)
There's two different types of strategies that I have for today. One is a parent strategy to say, I'm gonna address the antecedent or what comes before the meltdown. So I'm gonna address how I use or.
say the word no. I'm going to address how I say no to you. And then the second one that I have to share is I'm going to teach you how to hear no and not have that reaction. Okay. ⁓ So I said this in my little notes that I have up here, which are cute and they're cute.
Jen (08:23)
okay. Yeah.
Okay, they're cute.
Megan Connell (08:36)
And that I feel like
I'm so prepared. Look how excited I am. I made little notes and I even said things like one thing of two things today, how to avoid no to win the game and how to make no okay to take home the championship. Those are my cute things. Are those cute? Yeah.
Jen (08:58)
Those are very cute and
good thing to know.
Megan Connell (09:05)
Yeah, cute and practical like you, Jen.
Jen (09:07)
Practical, I guess.
Megan Connell (09:13)
Okay.
No, not practical. Cute. yeah. yeah. Don't you know? yeah. You got that right. Sure am. ⁓ okay. ⁓ I'm not. Okay. ⁓ all right. First one. This is to avoid. No first thing. First list to avoid. No.
Jen (09:16)
I'm cute, but I'm not practical.
Megan Connell (09:40)
All right, the first thing actually, I'm going to say this because the first thing that came into my mind, this kind of goes back to the emergency thing, Jen, and telling your kid what you want them to do or getting your kid to respond the way you want them to not just tolerate or accept hearing no, but get them to do what you want them to do when you give them a direction like stop or ⁓ don't put the penny in your mouth, right?
Jen (09:48)
Okay.
Megan Connell (10:07)
Okay, so what the first thing that I thought of when I thought of this was sometimes we're not even saying no, or we're or they're not a kid is not really hearing no or reacting to no, but it's like no adjacent. So we we want to instead of saying don't put the pennies in your mouth, we want to say, keep the pennies out of your mouth, or don't go up the slide, you want to say
Jen (10:32)
⁓
Megan Connell (10:36)
up the stairs down the slide that is I think kind of the simplest little tip around what you were saying and that is along the lines of what I called no adjacent. Like this is not hearing no, it's being told what not to do instead of being told what to do. And I think that's a whole nother show. I think that's like, that's all about communication and how kids are processing language,
Jen (10:58)
So you're.
okay. So you're not.
Megan Connell (11:04)
Like you're like, don't
Don't put the pennies in your mouth. And then they're like, the last thing they hear is put the pennies in your mouth.
Jen (11:08)
So you're saying...
right, right. Like, don't run. The last thing they hear is run. Instead, you should say, walk.
Megan Connell (11:17)
Right?
Right. So that.
walk. And the same thing, like don't put that in your mouth. The last thing they hear is put that in your mouth instead of, I will typically say around that, out of your mouth and the hand under the, the hand under the chin is somehow universally accepted across, all cultures, I guess, probably to spit that thing with that's in your mouth out into my hand.
Jen (11:32)
Right.
Yeah, I've done it at school with students when they've put a rock in their mouth or whatever. You put your hand right there and say, no, you know.
Megan Connell (11:57)
Yeah.
Just.
It's like the pest dispenser. That's universal, universal symbol, universally understood as spit it out into my hands. I want it. I want it in my hand, slobbering all. ⁓ So yeah, that was my first kind of thought on Onyx, you know, having.
Jen (12:06)
Yeah, it comes right out in your hand. Spit and all. Spit that out. Put your slobber in my hand. ⁓
Megan Connell (12:32)
hearing no without a meltdown, right? that's the language, how we can change our language. Like, don't, you know, say what you want. Tell the child what you want to see as a correction, like as a correction to behavior, instead of what you don't want to see. you might, and that might just be...
Jen (12:55)
Okay.
Megan Connell (12:57)
paired with no all the time, no, don't go up the slide or no, take that out of your mouth, those things don't even need to be have no attached to them. Those things can just be a statement. know, spit it and, you know, take it out of your mouth or use, you know, up the stairs or, you know. ⁓ So these are the ways to avoid no.
Jen (13:19)
Yeah.
Megan Connell (13:23)
Avoid saying no, just some suggestions for language you can use to avoid saying no. They're gonna seem go, go, go, go. Yeah, no, yeah, no, go.
Jen (13:29)
Can you also, oh go ahead, sorry.
Can you also say, or are you saying, like tell them what they can do instead of what they can't do. Like you can put a cookie in your mouth or you know, whatever.
Megan Connell (13:44)
Right. Yes. Right.
I mean, you might not want to be like, trade me those pennies for this cookie because you might get a lot of penny eating at that point. I would start eating pennies if you gave me a cookie every time I did it. So. ⁓
Jen (14:07)
But like if they're running you can say you can walk instead of don't run you may walk to the slide or whatever
Megan Connell (14:19)
Yeah. Yeah.
Or just like give the direction of what you want, Like ⁓ if the kid is playing with their food, keep your food on your plate.
Anything, right? Just think of the alternative of what that behavior would look like if it wasn't happening. And then describe that to the kid,
Jen (14:34)
Right.
⁓ okay, I get it, I get it.
Megan Connell (14:45)
Yeah, okay. ⁓ And so, yeah, just be like, she does this all the time. She's always playing with her food at the table. then think to yourself, okay, what does the opposite of playing with your food at the table look like? And that is how you want to ask for the behavior to change.
Jen (15:06)
So would you say something like, instead of saying don't play with your food, could you say eat your food? You know what I'm trying to say? Tell them what you want them to do with the food.
Megan Connell (15:18)
Yeah, yeah, totally.
Yeah, exactly. So like, so if they're playing with their food and they're ⁓ like thrown it across the table, keep your food on your plate. I mean, what you must have grown up, you must have just been so calm in your house. I mean, it must have just been like a monastery. If no one was throwing food ever. So you
Jen (15:29)
Ha ha ha!
No
You
I don't think we would have been in
so much trouble if we had.
Megan Connell (15:54)
We be ⁓ so or yeah, or if you're like playing with your food, what are we doing with the food that you're saying like, don't play with your food, like spitting it out. This food stays in your mouth or like ⁓
keep your food in your mouth. I mean, if a kid is just like stirring their food around on their plate and they're not eating it.
Jen (16:20)
Well, if there's no...
Megan Connell (16:22)
They're
like they just need to eat. They're not like, you know, engaged in a behavior that needs to.
it occur less like throwing food across the table is a behavior you want to see less of or spitting food out is a behavior you want to see less of, right.
Jen (16:35)
don't.
Yeah, if they're just stirring it around on their plate, I would just, I don't know, kind of ignore it.
Megan Connell (16:47)
Right. So what do you mean by playing with their food? What are they doing with their food? I guess that's what I'm trying to describe to you is exactly what they're doing. If you want to see less of it, tell them what that would look like. So playing with, stop playing with your food. Well, what does that look like? And then what would the opposite of it look like? So if it looked, playing with your food looks like throwing your food on the table and smushing it with your hands, then you'd be like,
Jen (17:02)
Okay.
Megan Connell (17:16)
you know, okay, so like playing with your food with your hands and your fingers would be like, use your spoon.
Jen (17:25)
Right, okay, I see what you're saying. So if they are putting it on the table, you say, put your food on the plate. If they're picking it up with their hands, you say, please use your spoon. Do you say please?
Megan Connell (17:27)
that right? what
Right, if they're playing with their hands.
Right.
Yeah, why not? mean, if you're not a monster.
Jen (17:50)
Well, if somebody, I guess I meant if, no, if somebody's struggling with language, know, ⁓ receptive language, are you gonna throw a please in there or does that make it harder for them to understand?
Megan Connell (17:51)
You better. I don't know. I don't know. I don't care what you say.
If you, yeah.
Yeah.
⁓ no, that's, would presume competence and say that they probably understand what please means and that if it's a cultural, if it's something that you culturally believe that is important to add to language, add it to your language, because it's one, one word. I mean, I'm not a speech pathologist, but it's like one word. think we get into like, don't use please.
when we're like teaching please as a way to ask for everything instead of asking for what we want. And there's just one word please that is supposed to mean I want, I want a bajillion things. So that's a totally, and that's another totally different topic. So maybe I'm getting in the weeds, but no, say please. If you want them to, if you, if please is important to you, then you're using it often probably, and you should use it.
Jen (18:59)
okay.
Megan Connell (19:05)
because you're modeling it. And then when you get language back, you want to model the language you want to get back, So you're not like, you're not like writing a dissertation about how to keep food on the plate and then saying please at the end and like, that was one too many words. You should be keeping it pretty simple anyway. keep your food up because you're not like, you know, like we in this house, we like to keep, you know, we like to keep the table clean. So we are going to try our best.
Jen (19:11)
Right.
Okay.
Ha
Megan Connell (19:34)
and keep the food on the plate, please. You know, you're just like, keep your food on the plate, please. That's different. That's where the language is like, that's too much or that's like, that could be overwhelming. Right.
Jen (19:42)
Okay.
got, okay, so if you keep it
simple, adding a please or a thank you or whatever is not gonna make it worse.
Megan Connell (19:54)
Yeah.
No. And it's, you know, if you're saying it, that's important to you. So you should use it because you might hear it back. ⁓ yeah. ⁓ and again, like, presume competence, you understand what I'm saying. Just cause you can't say it back to me or you, you know, you understand me that, and I, you know, that's true.
Jen (20:04)
Hopefully, yeah, eventually.
Megan Connell (20:21)
So, all right, so there's that. That one strategy is like I said, that's no adjacent. Then there's other ones use this instead of no. So you can say pretty much no, it's not happening. This is not gonna happen, but you avoid the trigger word, which is no, right? So you could say something like maybe later. ⁓
Jen (20:42)
Right.
Megan Connell (20:48)
or like first let's go to the bathroom ⁓ or I don't think so or not today
So just these ways to say no that are not actually using the word that's they hear no, they have a meltdown. ⁓ no has been paired so much with negative experiences that just hearing it I can't handle this. So you say no in other ways, ⁓ And then that hopefully does not result in the trigger.
Jen (21:12)
A trigger.
Megan Connell (21:23)
It's also, mean, no, it's pretty, most things are not no. Maybe putting pennies in your mouth, maybe running into traffic is no, but most things are, are these things. They are maybe later or they are not today or they are like, ⁓ not, I don't think so. So that, that is not we're not saying no, we're just being more accurate. We're not saying like,
Because the kids will be thinking very black and white. no, they're not thinking well, she's ⁓ like, I'll ask later and it'll be a yes. I know that. They're like, God, it's no. Right?
Jen (21:58)
Right, no
is like a cement wall where you could make it more like, well, let's think about it or we'll talk about that tomorrow or tonight or something. Then it's not this hard line. ⁓ It's a flexible thing.
Megan Connell (22:07)
door.
Yes, right, right.
right.
and it really probably is more flexible than no allows for, right? Most things are, most things are not hard no's, you know? ⁓ So most things that you're saying no to in the moment are not hard no's, at least, right? So that's the one thing. Say maybe later, like first let's go do this, or I don't think so, not today. ⁓
Jen (22:24)
Yeah.
Right.
Megan Connell (22:45)
So the other one that is helpful is to tell them why. and ⁓ not just tell them what to do, but tell them why we like this is close to us. I love this because kids will ask me all the time for food, ask me for food that's not mine. And I will tell them.
That's not mine to give you. And they're like, okay. And they never get upset. And if I just said no, they'd be like, what? my gosh. I can't have that yogurt in the fridge. And I'm like, that's not mine to give you. They're like, yeah. That's, she can't share that with me. It's not hers. They, and, and
Jen (23:07)
⁓
Alright.
Right, but I've had, I've worked with
students that wouldn't understand that either.
Megan Connell (23:29)
You that's
not presumed competence. And so that's you are thinking that I'm telling you I am saying this to the most nonverbal children and they understand what I'm Just because you don't talk back to me. If I said that's not mine to give you that's very simple language. That's not mine. Can't give it to you. They get that. So that's not
Jen (23:55)
⁓ okay.
Megan Connell (23:57)
I mean, that's not like, that's beyond so many kids. No, these are kids that are level three autism, minimal verbal or no verbal language. And they are understanding me when I say, that's not mine to give you. like across the spectrum or across like any like neurodivergent kid, if it's like, it's just telling you why. So you're understanding.
Jen (24:24)
Right.
Megan Connell (24:25)
Like they're, it's, it's kind of been like if they want the thing at the candy, at the candy aisle, I'm always talking about candy. mean, I'm like, that's what kids go for. And I have a candy problem. so it's good. It's good. That's not mine to give you. Sweet. That's not true. Give it to me.
Jen (24:36)
Well, that's because that's what kids go for.
So do I. And I have to tell myself, no, maybe later. Yes.
Come here now!
Megan Connell (24:55)
You're lying
to me So you could say like I mean really it's not like that's not mine to give you or that's not mine You can't have it ⁓
Jen (25:08)
But no matter what you're saying, you're gonna keep the words to a minimum and short and not use no, but keep your statement short, not say, well, you can't have that candy right now because we're gonna go home in two hours and eat dinner and then maybe blah, blah, blah. I mean, you couldn't go on like that. You'd have to say maybe later and leave it at that or.
Megan Connell (25:14)
and not use no.
Yeah.
Sure, right.
Right,
Jen (25:37)
Whatever.
Megan Connell (25:37)
right. Yes, the language is simple for sure. Yeah. And there's not there's an explanation, but it's not like a long drawn out explanation. It's just a really simple. That's not mine to give you. ⁓ Or like, I, I like that's close to us. Like this is close to us. If it's not close to me, if it's a place I can go, but the kid can't go, I will say this is close to you. ⁓
Jen (26:04)
you're saying
closed.
Megan Connell (26:05)
See I cheat. Oh, this is gonna be bad We're gonna need we're gonna need closed captioning and we're have to do this in Person on or we're gonna have to use the video so people understand what I'm saying because of my weird
Jen (26:13)
The first time, first few times.
The first time you
said that, you said close, close, like next to me. But you're saying closed, and I couldn't understand that. Now I get it, this is closed, because I've done that with a student, the close thing, and it works really well, you know.
Megan Connell (26:44)
Yeah, this is closed to
us and I'm using the sign for closed as I do it also. That's another thing. Sign language. Yeah, like so that's yeah, like, maybe later or or later there's a sign. So there's some signs that I'll add to it. Like when I'm like, maybe later, I'll do later, which is like a hand and an L, you know, you can find those on the YouTube. The YouTube is full of those. Like you can look up. ⁓
Jen (26:50)
⁓ sign language. Like, wait. Wait, stop, close.
Megan Connell (27:14)
Signs for those so it's close to us. There's like sign for clothes and i'll make that sign that's not my or like it's all gone You know it's all done or whatever. ⁓ So or that's okay so this one I wrote down the kid wants the ipad ⁓ or the tv And I might just be like that's turned off right now ⁓ again, it's avoiding no, but it's giving like a little bit more and
⁓ well, you can't have it. It's turned off. Like, I guess you could turn it on. Maybe that's not the most honest one. That's like me telling myself the candy at the grocery store is not mine to give myself. You have, you have the money. You have the power to buy this, to buy these Reese's peanut butter cups for me. ⁓ so.
Jen (27:58)
You have the power!
Yeah, but even
if so, okay, maybe I'm going off into the weeds like you said, but let's say you try one of your strategies and when you're still having, you know, a meltdown, you know, then what are you doing?
Megan Connell (28:23)
Oh, okay. Well, all right. That is, I think that that is like a different, that is another topic. You should be writing these down, John. Do you have your little, your little secretariat notebook there? You have your, you have your little, you should get a typewriter. We should get a typewriter. we won't have any like sound effects except for you punching away at an old timey typewriter.
Jen (28:26)
But is that another topic?
Okay.
I
that would be cute.
Megan Connell (28:51)
Take a note and you'll just like, what, what does she type? What is that noise? No one will know unless they're like over, over 40. They'll be like, huh? ⁓
Jen (29:04)
I just wrote it down, so that'll be our topic for next time.
Megan Connell (29:06)
Yeah.
Next
time. Okay, promises, promises. ⁓ But I will say that ⁓ we're gonna get, think I'm gonna touch on this. ⁓ And I think my notes have something about this. So we'll see. Okay, the next part, win the, take home the championship, baby. Make no, no, it's not a win. It's not a win.
Jen (29:29)
⁓ right. The win-win. You mean the win-win? No, not that.
Okay, take home the champion.
Megan Connell (29:41)
You
will be the winner. Your child will still be, will still be told no. They will not win anything, but we're trying to make them not be sore losers, I guess. Maybe this was a horrible analogy I thought of. It's not, it's not swimming. This, this fish does not swim. right. Start.
Jen (29:55)
okay. Got it.
Okay.
Megan Connell (30:12)
we're going to start shaping no, So this is a behavior analytic term for shaping. And it is really shaping and pairing, right? And I think we probably don't have time today to talk about shaping and pairing.
Okay, so start shaping no make no like a game so shaping we'll talk more about shaping next time write it down Shaking Tell tell your kid. No Tell your kid no and make it a funny game like you're gonna put no into play and no no is like a playful thing that's like
Jen (30:37)
shaping. Got it. Oops, I dropped my pencil. Okay.
Megan Connell (30:54)
Not bad. It's not bad. No does not mean, stop, stop, stop, ⁓ stop. No does not, no, that was my cat. ⁓ my, I can't even get into, I'll tell you later what the dog did today to like a basket. Carrie was like eating like one of those, whoa, like here, Carrie was eating one of these baskets. I'm not even, like one of these. I was like, heard like Monchi, like.
Jen (30:59)
that was your dog. ⁓ okay.
That dog!
Megan Connell (31:25)
And I'm like, what is that? What is she eating? I, and I'm like, the basket? I don't know. I told her maybe later.
Jen (31:32)
Did you tell her no? Or did you say, here, eat this bone instead? Maybe later.
no.
Megan Connell (31:48)
I don't.
She does not do well with no. So start shaping no and make no like a funny game. So you just put it in like in play, can you imagine this? no, I don't think so. No, no, no, no, I'm gonna get you. Oh no, no. Right? just put it in play.
Jen (31:54)
You
yeah, yeah.
Megan Connell (32:21)
if your kid likes to play with like little stuffed animals or, you know, have them say no, You're just making no a really big part of. ⁓
the language that your kid is hearing all the time and it's not a really aversive meaning like I'm losing out on something way of hearing it, So it's just like pairing no, shaping up hearing no, ⁓ no is not a really bad thing. When I hear no, I won't freak out.
Jen (32:36)
⁓
Megan Connell (32:59)
I don't immediately think that I'm missing out on something or something's gonna be taken away from me or I'm not gonna get what I want. Like, no, it's not so bad, ⁓ So that's just like shaping it, shaping up hearing note and then pairing it with play and fun things. Like, no, it's not always that bad. ⁓
Jen (33:08)
Right.
Yeah. Like you're playing
with cars and you crash them. No, we crashed!
Megan Connell (33:23)
No! Right, yeah, I like that.
Jen (33:26)
⁓ we crashed our cars. no. Yeah. No, I could see that. Yeah.
Megan Connell (33:29)
Yeah. Yeah.
Or like your superheroes are playing like, no, not today, Batman. that's actually what, that's actually the, the, ⁓ the, one of the strategies. ⁓ Not, not today was one of the strategies.
Jen (33:40)
Not today. Not today.
Not today
Batman get the Joker tomorrow
Megan Connell (33:56)
No.
Jen (34:02)
No.
Megan Connell (34:03)
Not today, or as I like to say, no. ⁓
Jen (34:07)
No, no. You know
what? All of this reminds me I also worked with an individual who
if you said no, not to her like, ⁓
Like, no, I don't think that store's open yet. Just that no word was not good. if I asked a question like, have you ever been in a helicopter? She would say yes because she hates saying the word no.
Megan Connell (34:44)
Yeah, no, it was so aversive. Yeah.
Jen (34:46)
so she would say
she had been in a helicopter even if she hadn't. But I guess that's a whole different thing. No, no, I'm not. It might be a different issue because you know what I mean?
Megan Connell (34:52)
and she never said no.
Yeah, it's called lying. I'm just kidding. I'm just kidding. I'm just kidding. Yeah.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, I do.
Jen (35:10)
But the word no was so...
Megan Connell (35:14)
a first up.
Jen (35:15)
aversive to her no matter what context you used it in.
Megan Connell (35:19)
Mm-hmm,
Another one I have is a no and immediately redirect, right? if you are getting a lot of meltdowns at no, like have something you could immediately redirect to. it's, we're not focused on the no for very long. So it's ⁓ no, but let's go, let's go to the park. And like the, the butt.
Jen (35:35)
⁓ okay.
Yeah.
Megan Connell (35:44)
The no but is like, I want this because I'm asking for it obviously, so I want this thing. But the but has got to be just as good if not better in order to be able to say no.
Jen (35:57)
Like, no,
but we can go to the park like that.
Megan Connell (36:01)
Like, I watch,
like, I like the park as much as like watching cartoons. Can I watch cartoons? No, but we can go to the park. Which is like the word, I mean, obviously that is not, like really, no, but I have all this time. I wasn't busy, let's go to the park. You know, like.
Jen (36:17)
No, but
you could say if they said I want to watch TV you could say no, but you can color in your coloring book or if that's something they prefer
Megan Connell (36:27)
Right, ⁓ right,
no, but here let's play sandbox or something like that. Right, exactly. ⁓ Or no, go play in the backyard or something like that, ⁓ No, but, so if it's like, ⁓ so that's one way, or it could even just be like, ⁓ it could be something like, no, but let's go look at this picture album.
Jen (36:33)
Yeah.
Right.
Megan Connell (36:54)
And like that kid loves looking at that picture album. So you have that little thing in your back pocket to redirect all the time. Like what's that thing, you know, that you could redirect to when you are saying no, maybe.
Jen (36:58)
Right.
Megan Connell (37:10)
It's tied also, the no but, the but is also tied to some attention or some fun with mom or dad or grandma or grandpa or it's like, you could, if the kid is silly, I love it when kids are real silly. You could be like, no, but, but we could go to space.
Jen (37:31)
You can do the dishes for me.
But we could go to outer space.
Megan Connell (37:36)
Yeah, but you could do the dishes for
me. No, but you could go get a job.
Jen (37:44)
No, but you can help me in the kitchen. Actually, a lot of kids like that. Yeah, yeah.
Megan Connell (37:45)
⁓ Yeah, if they like that. If they like that, they do. Right. Exactly.
Exactly. Being a helper. Yeah, absolutely. So know what they like, know what they like, and that's the redirect from the know. That's great. Yeah, totally. Okay, the next one is ⁓ called priming. And I like to do this with kids really verbal height, you know, kids who are pretty, have like some pretty big, pretty big
Jen (37:54)
Yeah, yeah.
Right. Yeah.
Megan Connell (38:13)
verbal skills, not big, but they have some, you know, good verbal skills. And they'll ask me something, they'll ask me for something and I will tell them whether I'm going to say yes or no. I know that this kid does not know how to handle no. If they ask me a question that is a yes or no question, I will set it up and say, I may say yes, I may say no. are you ready to hear no? And they will say, yeah, I'm ready.
And then I'll say, yeah, we could do it. Or I'll say, no, not today. And then that is, they told me they were ready to hear no. And usually if I set this up like, and I'll say it multiple times, I won't just say it one time because again, like even if a kid is really verbal, it doesn't mean the first time that you said something, it got appropriately processed. Right. So I might be like, and they'll ask me and I'll say,
Jen (39:06)
Right, right.
Megan Connell (39:10)
I might say yes, I might say no. Are you ready to hear no? And they'll say, are you ready for that? And they'll say, yeah. And I'll go, okay, remember. Like I might say yes. And I might say no, you're ready to hear no. These are, again, these are kids like, because if you said this to a kid who, this is where this is too verbal for some kids, right?
Jen (39:35)
Right, yes.
Megan Connell (39:36)
Cause they're
just going to hear no. They're just going to be like, she keeps saying no. And then she keeps saying yes. so, ⁓ but again, it's like, are you ready to hear no? And a lot of times if a kid's not ready, they won't say anything. And I'll
Jen (39:41)
Right.
I've
never tried that. I've never done that. That's interesting to me.
Megan Connell (39:55)
And I'll, like,
if they're not answering me and saying, I'm ready to hear no, I'm like, you're not ready to hear no, ⁓ And so based on that, I might be like, the answer is gonna be yes. But when they say that they're ready, or also like, you don't wanna be like, I'm ready to hear no, and then all the time you get a no, it's gotta be yes too. Like, I'm ready to hear no. Yeah, good.
Jen (40:04)
Yeah.
Megan Connell (40:22)
but it's not no today, we can go to the park or whatever. Like it's not no today, you can have the iPad time or whatever it is, right? ⁓ So, and when they're not answering or they'll, I've had kids tell me, no, I'm not ready to hear no. Yeah, and I say, and I'll say, okay, then let's do something else. And they'll go, okay.
Jen (40:41)
really? Wow, wow.
Wow, that's amazing.
Megan Connell (40:54)
because you're prepping them and they know they'll be like, I mean, they might be like, I'm not feeling great. And I know if I hear no right now, I'm gonna be so upset. And these are young kids, like five-year-olds, you know what I mean? Or like, you know, they're not like, this would work with any kid, but I mean, they don't have to be five.
Jen (41:08)
Wow!
Yeah. ⁓
Megan Connell (41:22)
But it is like, if you're pretty verbal, you know, it works. It's like, check where they are at baseline, because they might not be at baseline. If they're not at baseline, like emotionally and regulate, and they're not regulated, no, it's not gonna be easy for them. So that's thing.
Jen (41:43)
So when you say baseline,
it's when they're, explain baseline. I'm thinking. Okay.
Megan Connell (41:49)
Like they feel calm. if you think
of your baseline, I'm calm. I have not had a bunch of like busy upsetting things happening to me all day. I'm not overstimulated. I'm not under stimulated. you know, I mean, Some kids are never at baseline. And again, I think that this is another self-regulation conversation that goes deep.
much deeper than this. ⁓ But you're like, I'm ready for something hard. And we all know, like they know, kids know that no is hard for them. And they're saying to you, I know, I'm ready for something hard. If something hard might happen right now, they know.
I don't want something hard to happen to me right now. We would all say no to that if we didn't want it, Like I'm basically saying with that whole conversation, are you ready for something hard to happen? And the reason they're like, no, is the same reason why you would say no to that. They're like, no, I don't want anything hard. Or I might be like, Jen, something good might happen, but something hard might happen too. Are you ready for that? And if you're at baseline, you might be like, yeah, I'm ready.
Jen (42:40)
Yeah.
Right.
Megan Connell (43:05)
Let's, let's, let's, let's spin that wheel. Let's roll that roulette. Jen, by the way, listener is a gambler. So that's why I'm talking about that. No, I joke. I I'll get you some rippies, Jen. ⁓
Jen (43:06)
Right.
You
⁓ okay. I had no idea. I guess after this is over I gotta go to Las Vegas here. ⁓ okay.
Megan Connell (43:35)
⁓ But that works. I'm not kidding you. It works. that was it. That was the end of my notes. But I did say, I do want to say like there's more. There's more, obviously.
There's always more to talk about. I mean, there's more strategies. There's more.
That's probably what's going to happen. You'll, this, this conversation will be behind a paywall.
Jen (43:57)
Thanks
You
Megan Connell (44:06)
you know what a paywall is? Well, that's what people use to get on your OnlyFans page.
Jen (44:07)
No? Then it was funny.
⁓ okay. I told you before we started this whole thing, technology is out there for me.
Megan Connell (44:23)
I know that's why
that's why we have mr. Sean Godfrey do our
Jen (44:30)
Because half this paywall, all that stuff, I don't know.
Megan Connell (44:30)
Admin, and yeah, yeah.
I like Sean. I like Sean Godfrey as our audio tech, cause he gets us. think he won't cut the good stuff. You know what I mean? He's got a good sense of humor. He might just even think this is fun. Like we do. He, he's just almost as crazy as we are. And it's like, let's just, let's just do it.
Jen (44:47)
So let's call him.
Megan Connell (45:01)
This'll be fun. All right. Write it down. Mr. Sean Godfrey, Sean Godfrey, Emmy winning producer. And, ⁓ it's time to go. I gotta read, I gotta read the ending You ready? Tell me if you like it.
Jen (45:03)
We should add them. I'll write that on my list of to-do. Add Sean.
Add Sean G.
Okay.
So yeah, go.
Okay.
Megan Connell (45:25)
Maybe you'll take a turn reading if you feel brave enough to read in front of the people. Thanks for listening to the Parent Portal. If this episode gave you something to think about or try, take what fits and leave what doesn't. Every family is different. Follow us or subscribe where you get your podcasts.
we'll be back with another conversation soon. And in the meantime, keep stepping to the music you hear.
Jen (45:58)
Thank you for listening.
Megan Connell (46:01)
⁓ please, come back again.
Jen (46:06)
For another?
Another laugh for sure. For another laugh and good ideas.
Megan Connell (46:12)
another another lab. Well, all right. We gotta
wrap it up. Jen wrap it up. Bye bye bye bye bye bye bye bye bye bye bye bye bye bye bye bye bye bye
Jen (46:18)
Okay, bye bye bye bye. Bye.
Megan Connell (46:25)
I don't know. Oh, wait. Okay, bye. No, I don't know how to stop it. Bye. Now do it again. Bye bye bye bye bye bye bye.
Jen (46:29)
Bye bye
bye bye.